Proceedings, Third National Conference Workmen's Compensation for Industrial Accidents. National Conference on Workmen's Compensation for Industrial Accidents

domestic service.

      The great difficulty right now in New York is concern as to the scale of compensation. The New York workmen are not satisfied with one-half wages. They have asked recently that the bill be made full wages. I think, however, that somewhere between one-half wages and what they are asking will be accepted as a final solution of the difficulty.

      I want to make this one personal observation about these measures, and in this respect I think my views are not quite in accord with the views of all of my fellow-workers. I think the purpose of all this legislation should be first to do substantial justice to the workingmen, and I think the second consideration should be to take out of the courts all this long and expensive litigation, in order that the money that is not paid by employers, or whatever is paid by them, may be used for the relief of those who are suffering from industrial accidents. I do not believe, however, that the workmen should have the right to sue his employer, and, failing to win his suit, to go back and receive his compensation. I differ with most workmen in that respect, because I think if he has the right first to sue, and, failing to win his suit, to then accept the scale of compensation, that it is a temptation, an almost irresistible temptation, for him to sue, because it costs very little to enter the suit, and inasmuch as he knows in advance that if he fails to win the suit he will have his compensation any way, too many workmen would elect to sue perhaps on a contingent fee, and then go back if they failed to win and take the compensation. I do believe, however, that he should have the choice of suing under the employer's liability law or accepting the compensation, but, as I say, I do not think he ought to have both rights. I believe that perhaps the labor men who have made the most thorough investigation into the subject will agree with me that it is a fair proposition to give him his choice, but not both choices.

      Illinois.

      Mason B. Starring (Illinois): The Chairman of the Illinois Commission, Mr. Rawn, is unavoidably absent to-day and probably will not be able to attend the conference to-morrow. This second Illinois Commission is young. The act creating it was passed at a special meeting of the Legislature, and the appointments to membership on the Commission are of very recent date. In convening the Commission, the Governor of the State of Illinois expressed the hope that the members of the Commission would not indulge in deliberation or consideration of the features of a bill until first they had fully advised themselves as to the facts which would necessarily and properly govern the conclusions which they hoped to attain. Illinois, therefore, is in the position of being a student of this matter, and the progress and work of its Commission so far, I believe, to be largely that of investigation. We come here to learn. And were it not for the fact that the question of age destroys the illusion, when we heard the lady from New York (Miss Eastman) speak, we certainly would have felt that we were "sitting at the feet of Liberty Enlightening the World."

      I want to suggest to this meeting, Mr. Chairman, that there is no one connected with our Commission so familiar with all its workings, looking at it both from the side of the employer and the employe, as is our secretary. The Commission is composed of six men chosen from among the most respected and eminent leaders of the workingmen in the State of Illinois, supplemented by a selection by the Governor of six men from the ranks of the employers. The Chairman is Ira G. Rawn, president of the Monon Railroad, and the Secretary is Edwin R. Wright, president of the Illinois State Federation of Labor. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that it might please the members of this meeting, and certainly it would please the members of the Illinois Commission, if you would ask Mr. Wright to speak to you.

      Edwin R. Wright (Illinois): We have not in Illinois progressed far enough to make any report showing any particular progress. So far we have been trying to find ourselves, and to find a starting point from which we can work. It took us a meeting or two to become acquainted with each other, and another meeting or so to try and understand the different points of view.

      For years and years we have been going to the Legislature in Illinois pleading for protection; a measure that would protect our lives, a measure that would protect those who are dear to us, and year after year we have failed, until at the present time patience has almost ceased to be a virtue. We expect this Commission will make an investigation into how the men in the State of Illinois work and the compensation that is paid the injured workmen when any compensation is paid at all, and the relief that is given a man's family after the breadwinner is sacrificed on the altar of industry. The conditions are bad in Illinois; I do not believe they are any worse anywhere. I do not believe a man's' life is worth very much in Illinois. I am quite sure of it, and before we get through with the investigation I believe we can show that an employer owning a cart or a wagon, two good draft horses attached to this wagon and a good driver on the wagon, if an accident should occur blotting out the team, wagon and driver, that the employer, through our court system, values each of the horses attached to the wagon and the driver at about the same value; one is worth about as much as the other under our present court system. That is entirely wrong. At least, we believe so.

      To the men who are injured at the present time there is very little being paid. I believe, and I am speaking my own belief, I am sorry to say, instead of speaking the opinion of the Commission, that we should have an automatic compensation law in the State of Illinois, where the man will know absolutely what he is going to receive if he is injured; what his family is going to receive if he is killed. It does not make much difference whether we have a double or single liability. I prefer, of course, a double liability, but I find that under our court system a man does not get nearly as much under the double liability as he could expect to receive under a single liability law, and that if we would insist upon a double liability in this State we would have to cut down the other provisions of the bill to secure it.

      We have progressed far enough to put just exactly this provision in a circular form in the hands of every trades unionist in the State of Illinois at the present time, and we are going to find out what the rank and file of the workers want. Just as soon as the six labor members on the Commission find out what the workers of the State want we will then try to incorporate it into the bill. A circular has also gone forth from the Commission to the employers of the State, trying to crystallize their ideas into a concrete proposition, and then the six members of the Commission representing the employers and the six members representing the workingmen will sit down at a table and thresh this out just as a committee would do that was trying to settle a wage scale, and I believe we will arrive at some understanding; and when we arrive at an understanding with our employers who represent organized capital in the State of Illinois, and six trade unionists representing the organized workers in the State of Illinois, I believe that that position will be accepted by both sides, and that when we go to the next Legislature they will incorporate that into law, and it will be signed by the governor and put into full force and effect.

      I want to say just a word as to why we were anxious to have the Commission organized as it is. The original plan of the provision provided that the public should be represented, but the public is not particularly interested in this matter, not nearly so much as the other parties. The life of the employer is at stake in this matter. If we build up conditions so high that he will have to leave the State or abandon his property, he cannot afford to pay wages to the workingmen. We, on the other hand, have all we have to lose; we have not only our trade, but we have our lives at stake, and the public has no voice in it. Organized capital, through the Manufacturers' Association, the Mine Operators' Association, and so forth, has a voice. Organized labor has a voice, but if the public has any voice at all it does not amount to a great deal in the State of Illinois. We who have put everything that we possess into the balance in this matter expect to get something out of it which is definite, just and fair; and we have good reason to expect that after we have taken this matter up and threshed it out from one end of the State to the other that it will be to the advantage of the Legislature to meet us half-way. I have been in the Legislature as a labor lobbyist for some years and I have had a little experience in such matters.

      I do not know, Mr. Chairman, as I can enlighten you very much on what we are going to do. We have taken up the State Bureau of Labor report which we received from the secretary of the Bureau of Labor, who is here present, and we tried to get at the real meaning of that report. We intend to take up the state factory inspector's reports also, and try to get at and understand the real meaning of all these figures in these reports. It is one thing to publish column after column